So which FF Vocal Tracks do you like?

[MurasamE]

I don't know, I always paid attention to Ashe's more human problems than her "queen" problems. Then again, I am one of the five people who loved FFXII's story to death.

[Free Spirit]

Yeah, I always hated Ashe and thought she acted like a cold-hearted bitch straight from the beginning of the game to the end, so I never had much patience for her "problems". Every time she opened her mouth and told Vaan to shut up I kept waiting for him to slap her in the face and say "I'm the hero, bitch!".

[Nilfalasiel]

Originally Posted by Free Spirit

1. It is never heard in any form at all for the entire length of the time you're actually playing the game. It's just, okay, you beat the game "BAM!" here's a song with words for you. Most other vocal tracks play at some key moment during the game, defining that specific moment as well as the song itself. Kiss Me Goodbye is just tagged onto the ending credits like an afterthought.

2. The song sounds like nothing else in the game. Its style is completely different from the rest of the soundtrack, and that is more than a little jarring. Of course FFXII's soundtrack wasn't very melodic to begin with, so that makes it even more jarring.

3. Ashe's "plight" just isn't that important in the game. At all. Heck I never even considered her man troubles to be a plight in light of the larger troubles of the loss of her empire and all that. Ashe never really seemd to care about her man troubles either. Outside of the times the Occuria used Rasler's image to manipulate her, she didn't seem too chuffed about her love life. None of the characters in the game really deserved a Kiss Me Goodbye style tribute song, and that's another part of the problem with the song.

1. It still makes sense in relation to the moment where it's played. But it's true that there aren't any variations on it in the rest of the game. I agree that it's a minus.

2. It's much less jarring than, say, Otherworld in FFX. That one pretty much defined "jarring": it may have been cool in itself, but it really stuck out like a sore thumb in the soundtrack.

3. Of course, Ashe's issues aren't comparable in magnitude to the bigger plot of the game. But since I'm probably part of the five people that MurasamE mentioned, I also found that her human problems had some relevance.

Spoiler:

---

Rasler is made a big deal of for a long while, as she struggles with his memory, and that clearly influences her role in the storyline as a whole: it makes her decide not to take a piece of Sun Cryst, after all. Then, she's clearly very upset by Balthier's stint on the Bahamut (even if she probably knew that he wasn't interested). And Penelo makes a point of saying that she misses Basch during the ending...cue both of them wistfully staring into the distance.

---

I'd say that her issues were being given their screentime, as much as they could be, considering the rest of the plot, and the generally subtle way in which these things are handled throughout the game. It may be a little odd that they chose to bring them to the fore in the ending, but the song does fit that particular focus.

[Free Spirit]

Originally Posted by nilfalasiel

2. It's much less jarring than, say, Otherworld in FFX. That one pretty much defined "jarring": it may have been cool in itself, but it really stuck out like a sore thumb in the soundtrack.

I dunno, Otherworld seems like just another notch up from Challenge, the "big boss" theme of the game. And I think the fact that it's one of the very first songs you hear in the game makes a difference too. With Kiss Me Goodbye, you've had the entire game and the entire soundtrack behind you when you hear this song, but Otherworld is thrown at you right off the bat, and with nothing else to really compare it to yet, your first impressions of it won't be quite as shocking. Also it probably helps that I like the song quite a bit. :P

[MurasamE]

Oh god, I had completely forgotten how much I cringed and WTFed at Otherworld.

[Fincher]

I just felt Kiss Me Goodbye was oddly overt and sentimental for a game whose characterization was so subtle/ambiguous. "You say my love is all you need to see you through..." Um, who said that? About whom? Are we talking about Rasler's ghost here?

I felt that there was something going on between Ashe and Balthier, but that quote is something that Balthier never had and never would say. Is Ashe pulling a Rinoa and becoming delusional? "No, Balthier, just kiss me goodbye and follow your dreams. Don't shed a tear for love's mortality." Don't worry. He won't.

Simple and Clean's lyrics didn't match up in KH, but at least the feel of it fit the game. Here you have a dry, thoughtful political thriller, and at the very end, when no sort of romance comes out of the woodwork...boom, love song!

[Nilfalasiel]

@ Fincher: All I can say is that the song may point to Ashe's reckless tendencies: despite her political position as a leader, she has a strongly sentimental side to her. Because she's a bit desperate with the men she chooses, isn't she? Maybe it's just me, but from that flashback she had of Rasler at the Phon Coast, saying that they were supposed to play a part in their marriage, I got a sense that that's exactly what it was to him: convenience, even though he respected her as a person. He didn't seem to be particularly affectionate. She, on the other hand, clung to his memory for a very long time.

As for the situation with Balthier, well, there's some flirtation going on, because that's what Balthier does. And I'm pretty sure they have a connection in their morbid fascination with nethicite (very subtly handled on Balthier's side). But, in the end, any commitment he may have (and that's probably not much) is to Fran: the scene at the top of the Pharos makes that pretty clear. So once again, Ashe gets a bit too involved and is left with the short end of the stick.

That just leaves Basch: not sure that Ashe ever considered him as a valid choice during the game, but Penelo seems to imply that she does so after the ending. But of course, considering the path he chooses...that's obviously not gonna work. Or will take an enormous amount of effort.

So yeah, the only thing left for Ashe is to accept to let them go. It's the lesson she learns: freedom's a two way street. You may want it for yourself, but you have to accept that others may want it too. The song gives a sentimental spin to it, but that's essentially the meaning. Probably a tenuous tie-in to the storyline, but a tie-in nonetheless

[Soul Hunter]

As a connoisseur of mellow/easy listening music, I'd have to go with Eyes On Me, simply because its melody is both sweet and unique. I've been listening to this kind of tune since childhood and thus, couldn't help noticing how a great majority of these songs have melodies that resemble other songs one way or another. Some are even so similar I couldn't help wondering if they'd been ripped off. But I've never heard anything like EOM, and its sheer beauty and uniqueness is IMO a testament to the genius of Uematsu-san as a songwriter.

Everything else falls a distant second.

[Nikkolas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2qYelStdBU

I see nothing "jarring" about Otherworld. It makes the start of that boss fight quite epic and memorable for me.

[Goutetsu]

Add me to the "likes Otherworld" camp. Also a big fan of Liberi Fatali and its variations, as well as The Extreme.

I like the melodies of Eyes on Me and Melodies of Life and their various non-vocal arrangements. Just not the actual vocal arrangements.

I couldn't care less about the others.

[Lexx]

Originally Posted by Nilfalasiel

Maybe it's just me, but from that flashback she had of Rasler at the Phon Coast, saying that they were supposed to play a part in their marriage, I got a sense that that's exactly what it was to him: convenience, even though he respected her as a person. He didn't seem to be particularly affectionate. She, on the other hand, clung to his memory for a very long time.

I actually got the complete opposite sense from that scene. That Rasler was commenting on the irony that both their families and the people of their kingdoms viewed their marriage as solely political, when in reality they both did in fact care for each other. The way he smiled when she said she'd "play her part" and he said, "I'd have no other" seemed pretty clear to me.

Regarding the actual topic of this thread though, it goes like this:

1) Melodies of Life. I know, lol FFIX fanboy, but I really do like the music of this song the most. Not so much the lyrics, but whatever.

2) Otherworld. At first I was all O_O at it, but after a couple playthroughs the song really started to stick on me. I think the fact that it's only used to bookend the game, both times involving extremely traumatic experiences for Tidus, made me appreciate it more.

3) Real Emotion. I don't know. I just like the way it sounds.

4) 1000 Words. See above.

5) Eyes on Me. Bleh, I find it insipid.

6) Suteki da Ne. Same reason as Seelas. First time I heard it, the nasally singing made me literally cringe. It completely took me out of the scene.

7) Kiss Me Goodbye. I should clarify that I don't really have that big of a problem with the song itself, I just thought it was HORRIBLY inappropriate for FFXII. The entire game proudly ignores anything more than the most basic characterization for its characters throughout the whole thing. Aside from Ashe, each character really only has a single token story element, and a handful of scenes to go with it. In Penelo's case, make that ZERO scenes.

Instead the game chose to focus almost entirely on plot. That's the game designer's choice. But then to end the game after the biggest, most epic, world-defining, Empire-ending battle, on a love ballad whose music is utterly different from the rest of the game's soundtrack, is just mystifying. It's like the dev team was all finished and the game was about to be shipped when someone went, "WAAAIT! We need at least one ballad, as per the Eyes on Me precedent!"

It is just soooooo out of place both musically and thematically that it has to rot at the bottom of my list, regardless of its actual quality.

[Nilfalasiel]

Originally Posted by Lexx

I actually got the complete opposite sense from that scene. That Rasler was commenting on the irony that both their families and the people of their kingdoms viewed their marriage as solely political, when in reality they both did in fact care for each other. The way he smiled when she said she'd "play her part" and he said, "I'd have no other" seemed pretty clear to me.

It's the fact that they're putting an emphasis on "playing a part": there's no question of there being anything beyond that part. Also little details: at the beginning, when they're going to the church in the carriage, Ashe gives him a long look, but he just glances back at her, gives a small smile and turns away again; then during the scene on the balcony, Ashe is the one who puts her hand on his, he doesn't have *any* physical response to this. And overall, he just seems bored of the whole business (he does say he finds it wearisome or tiring, don't remember his exact words).

But maybe it's just me having an entirely subjective interpretation of the whole thing.

Originally Posted by Lexx

The entire game proudly ignores anything more than the most basic characterization for its characters throughout the whole thing. Aside from Ashe, each character really only has a single token story element, and a handful of scenes to go with it. In Penelo's case, make that ZERO scenes.

While I agree that Vaan, Basch and Fran have a pretty straightforward role in the storyline (and Penelo is pretty much deadweight), both Balthier and Ashe get quite multifaceted development: the storyline touches on both their "public" and personal conflicts. Especially Balthier. He should really have been the leading man, after all

As for how the actual characterization is handled, I really wouldn't call it basic. There was a lot of subtlety in the character interaction: things like sidelong glances, body language, implied statements and such. I thought it was a rare and very welcome instance where the game allowed you to read between the lines yourself rather than spelling everything out for you.

[Lexx]

Originally Posted by Nilfalasiel

It's the fact that they're putting an emphasis on "playing a part": there's no question of there being anything beyond that part. Also little details: at the beginning, when they're going to the church in the carriage, Ashe gives him a long look, but he just glances back at her, gives a small smile and turns away again; then during the scene on the balcony, Ashe is the one who puts her hand on his, he doesn't have *any* physical response to this. And overall, he just seems bored of the whole business (he does say he finds it wearisome or tiring, don't remember his exact words).

But maybe it's just me having an entirely subjective interpretation of the whole thing.

For starters, Ashe doesn't give him a look that he barely responds to. He looks at her and smiles while she's looking at the crowd. She turns and sees him, gives him a smile back, and he turns back to the crowd, still smiling. It's a completely different situation. With the balcony scene, he did have a physical response. He turned and looked at her. And he says he finds the political roles they play wearying.

The thought that Rasler didn't care for Ashe never entered my mind during my playing of FFXII. To me there was nothing ambivalent about those scenes you cited. Plus, all of the character profiles of Rasler I've come across have said that he and Ashe truly cared for each other, so that pretty much cemented my opinion after I finished the game.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as harsh with this, it's just that Ashe/Rasler was probably the only thing I really liked about FFXII, so it's easy for me to get worked up over it.

Originally Posted by Nilfalasiel

As for how the actual characterization is handled, I really wouldn't call it basic. There was a lot of subtlety in the character interaction: things like sidelong glances, body language, implied statements and such. I thought it was a rare and very welcome instance where the game allowed you to read between the lines yourself rather than spelling everything out for you.

All I can say is I disagree. There were plenty of moments of Ashe having pensive or resolved looks on her face. Plenty of times Balthier flashed a knowing grin to someone. But all of those were extensions of the basic character profiles they started out as. Ashe = determined leader who worries about her nation; Balthier = Carefree Sky Pirate with a secret and painful past. Those two pretty much stayed the same throughout the entire game until the end. And those characters received a TON of character development and characterization compared to the rest of the cast.

[Nilfalasiel]

Originally Posted by Lexx

For starters, Ashe doesn't give him a look that he barely responds to. He looks at her and smiles while she's looking at the crowd. She turns and sees him, gives him a smile back, and he turns back to the crowd, still smiling.

Ok, I went to check, and you're right, my apologies. I guess I misremembered that part because the balcony scene didn't convince me that he had any romantic feelings for her. By "physical response", I meant that he doesn't take her hand, doesn't hug her, or anything of the sort. Simply turning to look at her and then going on about how they're playing a part just struck me as quite a bland reaction towards his newlywed wife...Don't get me wrong, I agree that he cared about her, but I couldn't, for the life of me, get the mutual romance vibe there. Caring isn't the same as being in love. But perhaps it's just because I find Rasler incredibly boring.

Originally Posted by Lexx

There were plenty of moments of Ashe having pensive or resolved looks on her face. Plenty of times Balthier flashed a knowing grin to someone. But all of those were extensions of the basic character profiles they started out as. Ashe = determined leader who worries about her nation; Balthier = Carefree Sky Pirate with a secret and painful past. Those two pretty much stayed the same throughout the entire game until the end. And those characters received a TON of character development and characterization compared to the rest of the cast.

Ashe evolved a lot throughout the game, probably the most out of the whole cast: she started out angry, prejudiced and vengeful. There was none of that at the end. As for Balthier, his overall disposition didn't change that much, but he did manage to exorcise his demons and let go of his past. And it's really not any worse than, say, FFVII or FFVIII, for example: only Cloud and Cid got any evolution in the first one, only Squall and Laguna in the second. Besides, when I was talking about characterization, I didn't necessarily mean evolution. I meant the way the characters established their personality and their history by their behaviour and their expressiveness. Just look at Fran's face during the Eryut village scenes. Or at just about any scene between her and Balthier. Cid's dying moments, Larsa's wily little grin in the ending cutscene...I could go on and on.

I guess you can say that I defend characterization in XII in the same way that you defend Ashe/Rasler To me, it's one of the very best things about the game.

[Fincher]

The characterization in FFXII is so understated that it seems like everyone interprets it in a different way. Some time back, I was involved in a debate over whether Balthier and Fran were sexually involved.